The Importance of Nutrition in Our Healing Journey with Amber Gentry (Part 2)

You know, we learn an awful lot medicine. Particularly in surgery, spend hours. It's counted hours, but you know, hundreds of hours a week on that.

And I realized that I spent almost no time learning about how to be more effective, how to be more productive in terms of even organization, in terms of my day to day, and in terms of relationships and working with people. And people like a teammate, LeBron James, always had a coach. Serena Williams always has a coach.

Everybody who's at their very, very high level has a coach. So, and I asked one of the speakers who was one of the very first named chair of surgery out of university, how she came to get the job. And she said, you know, "Quite on the sea, I got a coach."

Today is a very special episode as it marks the 100th episode of The Healing Podcast. And I am having a very special guest with me today, one of my most active and favored clients in the whole white world. My beloved husband of 10 years, Dr.

Paul Haaser. Dr. Haaser is a surgeon.

He's the chief of Ascular Surgery at Brooklyn One Health Systems. He is a great physician, surgeon, husband, dad, friend, and sibling to many. When I became certified as a life coach several years ago, he was super year to work with me.

For a very long time, we had weekly sessions where they were very extremely professional. And I saw him as a regular client to support him in whatever he needed to support with that week or at the time. To became his very best self, the results after three to five years of coaching have been amazing.

And I'm humbled and honored that he's agreed to be my guest today to share his journey of growth with you. We talked about his path into getting support. Why is really hard for medical professionals to get support?

All the areas where coaching were very valuable to him and all his key takeaways. And we also share some insights and wisdom and why I and anybody who knows him considers to be an amazing husband. I truly enjoyed this episode and if you do too, please share it with anybody that would find it helpful.

And please subscribe and rate this podcast to help me inspire as many people as possible to do this type of work. Welcome to the Healing Podcast, Dr. Hacer.

Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming to be my 100th episode guest.

You are a rock star and I think the world of you and for you to come and share with my audience your journey to becoming the amazing surgeon husband, father, friend that you are. It means the world to me. So thank you for being here.

Pleasure. You're ready to run away. I'm a little bit of trepidation, but yes.

Would you mind sharing a bit of your journey into wanting to work with me or any previous work you've done on yourself before? Why would you work on yourself? So, you know, we learn an awful lot medicine.

Particularly surgery spend hours. It's counted hours, but you know hundreds of hours a week on that end. And I realized that I spent almost no time learning about how to be more effective, how to be more productive in terms of even organization in terms of my day to day and in terms of relationships and working with people.

You know, we often will say we train residents and we'll often say that all of the residents are very smart. It's very hard to get into a position as a surgical resident or a surgeon without being intelligent, but that doesn't mean you have a lot of the EQ. I can never remember what that stands for, but emotional emotional emotional question, right?

Exactly. You have the high IQ, but low EQ. And so I realized that I think that the other thing that really made a lot of sense was when one of our neighbors was a basketball player for the Brooklyn Nets and then for the LA Lakers.

And I realized thinking about how much work he spent with coaches and people that like his teammate, LeBron James, always had a coach. Serena Williams always has a coach. Everybody who's at their very, very highest level has a coach.

And then I think the last thing was I was the chair of the Diversity Committee for the Eastern Basketball Society. And let me point that you're very white male. White male.

To be the chair of the Diversity Committee was because he's why did you get that honor? So I was actually given that because I was willing to do the work, I think. And because I pointed out that I have a Colombian, Canadian wife and five daughters.

And that I work in a very integrated, or almost in some ways, unintegrated safety net hospital system and have for some time. So that I'm a little bit more attuned to and I try to be attuned to the needs of the Diversity Committee and such. So and I asked one of the speakers who was one of the very first named chair of surgery at a university, how she came to get the job.

And she said, you know, quite honestly, I got a coach and the coach helped her present her resume, screened her, you know, just gave her little tips and pointers that we don't generally get, you know, we've learned a lot of things through us Moses, but so it was really through those things. And then, you know, on a personal level, I had gone through a divorce and when we were trying to do the divorce, we went to go to the counselor. And she, as our first exercise, had my ex-wife and I have a sort of a minor disagreement discussion.

And she after five minutes, she said, you know, you guys are incredibly intelligent. And you argue with each other on like four or five levels of hurt, which I didn't like, you know, I didn't want to be doing that. And it was something I was completely unaware of as I think she was, or maybe she wasn't.

But so I started sort of down that path of getting help because there were a lot of things that I was doing that were sort of habitual or that had been helpful when I was a kid. That I kept doing as an adult, that weren't very helpful or very productive. And a lot of it was very subconscious.

Under the surface that I really wasn't aware of. And so even though it, you know, I think one of the things that I've learned is how important the physiology is. It's quite interesting.

I did listen to one of your podcasts recently, which I found amazing about the vagal theory and about how the heart rate changes with inspiration and with exploration. And you know, that's what I've noticed as a surgeon, as a vestist surgeon, all the time, you know. But and I have a physiologic reason for it in terms of the return of blood to the heart and passing to the lungs, et cetera.

But to really get a sort of appreciation of the emotional elements that the body can play is almost kind of astounding. Because you know, you grew up in this western world of like, oh, just think about things that will make them better. And you don't realize that literally like I tell the residents, you know, before before presentation to like, you know, kind of stretch and take a deep breath and say, I can do this and just saying it literally helps their presentation.

So is the heart rate? Stops the tremor, et cetera. So, um, so yeah, I think a combination of all those things led me to this.

Yes, people, which I think, um, one of the biggest things I help or support people with is that increasing that awareness. And a lot of the times when you study so much and you work so much and you get such positive reinforcement as a child, for getting good grades as a teenager, as a young adult, you, you keep doing the work just because it's like a nugget of appreciation and feels good to do well. But sometimes it doesn't really register your worth and how really capable you are and how amazing you are and some of the work I do with other special efficiencies that come into their own awareness of why they're worthy and why they deserve that promotion or that job or that why they're ready.

So that's really interesting. Thanks for sharing. Why do you think it's so hard or is still a stigma to get any type of support?

Oh, well, in medicine, you know, there's there are there are sort of two things going against therapy or against counseling or coaching even maybe three surgery. The third being that, you know, we're like the fighter pilots of in the medical world. We don't need any help from anybody, you know, we joke about, you know, comedy time you want.

Just remember to sign a weakness when so you're really autistic. Yeah, yeah, that's I guess a more blunt way of saying it. I think though there's for a long time even when we were at least when I was in medical school, you know, there was medicine and there was surgery and there were the subspecialists and then there was psychiatry which was often referred to as fluffy medicine or, you know, foofy kind of, you know, people didn't have give it kind of respect that it deserved and associated it literally with being crazy.

And the medical profession has because they've linked psychiatry and all of its sort of offshoots with mental health has made it into a lifelong sort of documentation which has been very slow to change. If you if you go to a psychiatrist for instance for a truly psychiatric issue and it stays with you forever every time you go to the hospital, even if so if you were suffering from alcoholism or if you were suffering from depression and you took off time from work for that or, you know, God forbid you had a even stronger diagnosis bipolar or something else like that. Every time every time you re-register for your insurance, you have to put that down and that's not, was it within five years?

It was, have you ever? And they leave that as an open and big question. And, you know, I'm running a wellness committee right now for the residents at the program that I'm at and one of the things that we're working on is because it was promoted because of some residents during COVID having expressed at least some thoughts in terms of suicidal ideation and physician suicide is certainly a terrible issue.

And so we started looking into this and getting people coaching and counseling and just to place to talk and particularly during COVID that was a big factor, you know, we'd come in and there'd be 18 people that had died overnight out of the blue when we we seldom have a in-house mortality. So, so that reporting system and that even if it's not reported becomes an issue then, you know, for instance, if if a resident does want to do coaching or counseling, oftentimes it's not covered by the insurance and the programs oftentimes won't cover it as well. So, and I think that's the same for physicians in general, there's this sort of, you know, you can look at a nuanced way of getting around it, but you always feel like you're getting around it as opposed to just saying like, oh, I'm going to the dentist, you know, I'm going to see my coach.

I'm going to work out. I'm going to go to a puncture. I'm going to go meditate.

It's like a Hach Hach, which is super sad because it's who we are. It makes us a better professionals, better people, more aware, more conscious. And it's not that we are broken.

There's no way you could be doing what you're doing if you had a mental illness, if you were bipolar, if you were schizophrenic, right? Not without proper treatment, etc. Yeah, correct.

So, it's like it's you're not broken. You just want to be a better person, a better friend, a better leader, a better boss, a better everyone. Yeah, it's one of those things that, by the way, for the audience, when I met Dr.

Hayes or at a conference, one of the things that impressed me the most with him the first few days when he said he had support and he talked to someone regularly. I was like, where can I sign up? Because the ability to be with someone who's conscious aware, who's already an amazing person, but wants to be even better, just was the biggest sex appeal out there for me.

I think, you know, the other thing I should add as another element of why is because when you actually decide to do the work, I mean, in a way, like I think if we can think of it more like the, again, the sports model, you know, it's hard. It's hard to do that training. It's hard to do that practice.

And going to talk to someone about issues that may have been from childhood trauma or from, you know, things that were coping mechanisms that are now very dysfunctional for everybody. It's not easy, you know. So even, you know, especially like you said, surgeons with egos and physicians in general with egos to go and say, you know, I'm having a problem or I don't know how to talk to people or people don't like me, you know, I don't know if anyone wants to sort of do that.

And then having to go in and look at yourself inwardly and say like, you know, it's, it is me. It's not, it's not them. It's me.

That's, that's difficult. And so it's, you know, a bit like going to the dentist, you know, when I went to the, when I go to the dentist, I, I always have this little subconscious memory of being a kid when we didn't, we were not given Novakaine for our fillings. And so I, I really literally felt the drill, you know, and the pain of that was pretty exquisite.

And so it stays with you even though I know now I'm going to go to the dentist. If I need anything done, I'll certainly give me Novakaine. And I'm not going to have that kind of pain, but it's that lingering memory.

That stays in our bodies and retain everywhere. And we have the same physiological fear and response of going to the dentist back then. Yeah, I know it's incredible.

So what do you found most helpful when we were work, when we work together, or what have you profit most of? So when we've worked together on coaching, I think, I think two things. One is you sort of alluded to it and you have the words for it.

I don't remember it exactly, but sort of connecting the physical physiologic with the stresses or sort of being mindful of that, you know, of what's going on in my body, my breathing, my posture, that kind of stuff. When I'm thinking about or planning to do things, I think one of the biggest things was helpful was to, you know, there's there's drudgery in every job. And when I think about the paperwork that I have to do, you know, you had mentioned about how if you look at something and say, this is horrible, this is terrible, it's going to be awful.

I have to do this as opposed to saying, you wanted to put on some nice music or why did you think about that or even sometimes if it's really, you know, not doesn't take a lot of thought, put on a movie or put on a radio show or a podcast, something like that, has been a huge help. I think the other thing that's been helped for me is, is you sort of helping me to be more realistic about my goals or my, and to really form out strategic objectives that are reachable, have sort of metrics attached to them and that I can look back. I think the other thing that was really especially helpful was to, to not just do the to do list, but to do the done list or the to done list at the end of the week so that every week when I'm looking at what I need to do, I also look back and sort of check off what I have done.

I never did that before. We had sat down and that that's huge because now I don't thread doing my to do list because I get a chance to look at what I did, you know, and I can also look at it a little bit more realistically so it's not like this crushing weight and I have all these things to do because I do have a lot of things to do, but it's more like, okay, I have all these things to do, but here's what I'm going to do them. And even if I don't get them done, I'm, I at least have sort of a realistic expectation of like, all right, I didn't get this done, but now I know where to move this to or I know I'll, I'll, I'll relate to this.

I believe the audience a little bit of background. Dr. Hayster is total rock star.

He not only is a full-time surgeon that we know works 80 to 100 hours a week, but he was constantly talking about about 30 different projects he wanted to be involved in this including writing books, writing literature, writing kits books, creating Broadway plays, playing hockey, singing at a choir, he speaks Spanish, German, he wanted to improve those French like we had a huge list of things that he wanted to do. In addition to we both made the conscious decision of having a fifth child and having a child of our own, which he was a bit more forceful on the idea than I was. So it's like, we can't deal with it exactly.

So we can't do it all. So we had I think one of the most useful things is when I met you, you had all this ideas including two or three or four entrepreneurial ideas on his own and like well-developed business plans for them and work he had done way prior to meeting me. So it had that whole strategic process of what are your values, what are your priorities, what are your dreams, literally when you are in your dying bed, what are you going to look back and feel like I'm glad I got this done and what's important to you.

And so we came up with all that strategic priorities, values, and we put every single project around and one of those projects was become the chief of your department. And this was five years ago and by the division. So by strategizing and being very strategic about what you're going to focus on and what you need to do to accomplish those things, you accomplish those things.

You became chief of your department. You are moving division. Sorry, you're moving towards some of your goals and you were able to say, well, you know what, this next two years, I'm going to work on this and years after that I'll work on that, right?

Yeah, and I think part of the thing, for instance, I do, I do want to learn French. And part because, you know, there's sort of this aspiration down the road that I would be able to work back up at the French hospital and feel much more comfortable filling in there. And because I did learn German really fluently and now I'm on this quest to by sort of backing off and saying, I'll do that next year.

I was able to really focus in on my Spanish and that's to me has felt, I know I have a long way to go, but it it feels much better in terms of being more fluent with that and comfortable. And so then it also sort of gives me hope that, okay, I'm learning that now I can do these other things later. So that's been a big help.

Yeah. And that awareness that every time you say yes to someone or yes to something, you're saying no to something else and it's not what you want to do. My coach reminds me of that all the time.

I don't know that I miss where that is. How do you why she needs? That's how you why Mrs.

Bill needs to go coaching sessions because I'll remind it. Find me of that fact that whenever you do something, you say yes to something you're saying no to something else and there's times when you have to say no. Yeah.

Right. Including I think a lot of physicians or successful professionals that work a lot while that brings a lot of joy in your life having strong connections at home and being happily married and being a good father, good mother, it's really crucial in your life, in your longevity, in who you are and how happy you are in overall. So making the time and energies for the things that you care about and in this case was me your wife.

So how are we going to structure time because we have time and energies for the things we care about. So right. And I do think you know, physicians, especially you know, there's a huge number of us that really have trouble saying no because we're there to help.

You know, we we don't want to say no. You know, someone could die or someone could really lose problems. So our initial instinct is to say yes.

And then as you had mentioned before about the nuggets of, you know, education and you know, that was how a lot of us don't love from our parents that oh, you've got an A. You know, what a good boy. What a good girl.

What a good kid. You know, and you sort of want that the chair to say, yeah, you're doing a good job. You're your divisions the best.

You know, there's there's that somewhat natural competition or there's that sense of I really want to I want to say yes to everything. And so there's that inclination and so reminding us that, you know, when you can't say yes to everything and two that, um, that in order to get things accomplished, you have to like you said, focus and and I think three, yeah, having a whether it's children, family, wife, spouse, you know, significant other or sibling, even that you're close to clearly improves your long longevity, your health, and of course your happiness. So yeah.

And making time for sleep and exercise and eating well and all that stuff. Yeah. You have to make time an effort for it.

Yep. So what did you enjoy the least about our coaching sessions? Uh, the reminder that I'm human.

Uh, I think you said it at the beginning, what you said, you know, it's you, you go to get support thinking everybody has a problem. And one of the roles of a coach is not just listening. It's like, why are you allowing this?

Why are you empowering others to treat you that way? Why are you letting this person not show up at work? What are, how are you showing up to this relationship?

It's always asking you very difficult questions. It's like, oh, yeah. Yeah.

No, I think that's part of it. I think the other thing was, um, you know, I would joke with you about, oh, you're crushing my dreams, you know, because I have these things, I want to get this book written. I want to get this paper done.

And, you know, and, and you're sort of saying, you can't, you're, I mean, it's, the physical here's time is one of those elements that we can't purchase more over. Do, you know, it's limited. And like you said, sleeps very, very important.

Eating, exercise, um, all of those things you, you have to literally take time. And I, also even doing the tutelist and the two done list, you know, um, is takes time. And I, that, that was hard to sort of wrap my hands around.

Yeah. Yeah. But you did it.

Well, I'm doing it. I'm going across. And you love your time on Sundays to get organized.

And it's going to start when playing me when he doesn't happen. Yeah. Yes.

Which I love it. I'm so proud of you. Um, so on a personal note, an inspiration to others.

We are celebrating 10 years of love of a very healthy, loving, passionate marriage, where you're not just an amazing husband, but a great father to your three genuinely clean-bound children and your two-step children. And what is your secret? What is your advice to others for listening?

Ah, ah, secrets. Good luck. Honestly, I feel like it was very good luck.

And being open to that. Um, you know, one of the things that, um, uh, that I really felt very, uh, blessed to, who, when I met you was that I was, I was in a place where I felt good about myself and not in a place of any, like even not in difference, but I was, I wasn't looking to meet you. I wasn't looking really to meet anybody, but I was also feeling very, very good about myself in terms of, you know, a past relationships that had not not gone well and, um, and past choices that I had made in relationships.

And, um, so I think being open to, um, I think in part saying no to things that didn't feel right, being aware and sensitive to any kind of red flags, if there were any or things like that that were, were issues. Um, uh, and, you know, like we talked about before, we had had a rough, rough day or so with your two daughters at one point and you would call them and say, are you sure you want to have a third kid, you know, we both have kids and they're great and, you know, and, and I was very much of the mindset that we may not be able to have a child, but that I wanted to be with someone who was open to having a child. And so I, that's why I said to you, as a deal breaker and I said it joking, but not joking because I really felt that like I was like, I love you.

I think you're amazing. And, um, but if you don't want that, that's okay. You know, and I sort of having that, that sense of myself to say like, oh, you know, that's great.

If that's what you want, then you should pursue that, um, with someone else. And if, if you want to have a relationship, I remind him of this, it's nine years, especially a bedtime, we're dealing with our energetic child. You want it or more.

Um, but so I'm very flattered. Thank you. And I do think there's a component of luck in meeting someone, but I think marriage is a commitment and it takes a lot to have a healthy, loving marriage, but we're 10 years into it.

And I still adore you, want you want to be with you, like who you are, like spending time with you. What have you done? I catch a right package.

So have you done? I think, I think part of it is what you said at the beginning about the counseling. I think I had no idea about the elements of, um, what's EQ again?

Emotional, emotional, emotional, emotional, your emotional, uh, question. I had no idea kind of what work was for that, you know, to me, work was sitting down and memorizing the anatomy or learning about chemical reactions or other, you know, things like that. Um, and not, not the idea of listening, not the idea of, um, uh, listening to myself as well.

And, um, uh, taking note of things. And also, like you said, spending that time to say, like, you know, I don't consider it work with you, but I know that it's an element of, of, uh, conscious, um, thought process time management, emotional, you know, intelligence work to listen if things go wrong, if we have disagreements, to kind of be more, um, self reflective of what's going on in my mind, how's this making me feel? And, and learning that to say, like, to validate, you know, like, okay, you, you may feel this way, you know, um, but it's not a scientific proof that I have to, they're, they're for proof it to you, that, you know, because you feel this way, it's wrong, you know, because I feel this way, it's incorrect, or it's correct.

I think one of the definitions of emotional intelligence is being aware of your emotions. I am feeling sad. I am feeling disappointed.

I am feeling happy. I'm feeling terrible. I'm feeling like a fraud.

I'm feeling, you know, all these things. And to be aware of them and knowing why you're behaving and why are you doing what you're doing and allowing the people around you to have their feelings and feel their feelings. And I know that one of the strongest components that I help clients with is providing emotional safety to their partners.

That means that they can tell you anything and you're not going to be defensive. Well, I didn't do that or you're not going to be aggressive or critical or it's an open safe space for you to say anything. And I know I love that about you, especially when we met and I was going through other wars and it's like, oh, I'm feeling this way or I'm feeling doubts about this and you were never threatened.

You were never critical. You were not never telling me what to do. They're like, I know that sucks.

It seems to that. I'm here for you. Let me know how I can like it was like, wow, it was the emotional safety that you provide that you probably learn through there because I remember when you were telling me about the work you were doing with your ex-wife, you were saying that in your late 20s, you didn't know if you were feeling anything.

Sad, angry, like you were just like, you guys work so much, you work 110 hours back then. You don't know how you're feeling at all, right? Yeah, which is, which is almost crazy because one, it almost seems so obvious that, you know, oh, well, I'm breathing so I should know how fast I'm breathing.

You know, I'm my hands are sweating. I should know that I'm anxious or you know, I'm my face is flushed, but you're right. We do as humans, we tend to separate out from that and I will say that, you know, to credit to my ex-wife, I had no idea.

She used to say, you don't know how to talk to me and I had no idea. I was in that state of unknowing ignorance that I didn't even know what she meant by that. And it's something too that I do have to consciously still oftentimes remind myself how am I feeling or there'll be times when I remind you how are you feeling?

How are you feeling? Let me think about it. Sometimes I don't know.

And that's kind of a strange thing because there's part of, there's part of me that feels like I should know how I'm feeling. But the reality is that, you know, you mentioned about in the previous podcast about the body keeps the score and how that's, it's really striking how our body keeps stuff in it that we, at least in our conscious brain and the upper levels of our cerebrum, we don't, we're not aware of at all. And so we'll act a certain way and do certain things and not really at all, be at all aware about it.

So at least having the mechanism to say like you do, which is I think one of the secrets is you say to me, how are you feeling? And you're, you're good and you know, you know, you'll remember to this time and I say, please don't tell me how I'm feeling. Yeah.

So, you know, I, because I want to feel how I'm feeling and what I'm feeling right now is that I don't know. I'm like something's bothering you, you're not on a plane. Yeah.

And I put your, your front and your, your chest is like, don't pat your nice me. Exactly. So I will say one thing, remind of me, I wanted to mention was when, when I had read your book, the Amazing Divorce, I realized to how badly, you know, one of the books I want to write is my on Amazing Divorce.

And I don't mean that is anything against my ex-wife as much as just that we, I had no idea how to apologize. I had no idea how to let her feel the way she was feeling or let me feel the way I'm feeling, validate my own feelings. And that was one of the things that struck me a lot about, you know, I definitely didn't feel safe to say what was really going on at the time.

And, you know, I think I was immature in terms of that. So I feel like it took me a lot longer to mature. I know, you know, I oftentimes said, oh, we had only met when we were younger, but I think when I was younger, you'd have been like, I'll see you later.

You later. Well, I was also very traumatized. Go to some work.

Go to someone. Yeah. You know, the work you had done on yourself was so evident and so clear and so aware.

I remember you were working out of different hospital and you're like, hey, I realized there's some people that are maybe making more than me. I'm like, go talk about it with your coach, you know, and you worked on it and right away that change, you know what I mean? And I remember calling you from Canada and you're like, what are you doing?

I'm like, I'm driving to Manhattan to talk to my coach therapist about what you said I should. I'm like, God damn, like the fact that you were doing that was so amazing because sometimes I've helped two or three physicians get a promotion and or achieve more balance at work by having the voice and the worthiness inside of you to be like, you know what? I've been doing this for 15 years.

I came out of Georgetown. I came out of Northwestern. I know what I'm doing.

I'm good. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Yeah. No, but comments from your God versus, well, I want it because everyone else I said, no, it's like, no, it's true. It's, you know, it's it's a little bit of at least for me, it takes, you know, it feels a little bit like you're on a rodeo.

And if you've ever seen them when the guys are getting on the on the booking, uh, Bronco and, you know, it's like, they're getting ready and getting set and you you have to psych yourself up. And there's a part of me as a physician, you know, or as a professional think it's like, I'm already a professional. Why should I have to do this?

And I I remind I'm reminded myself of, you know, I listen all the time to a smart list because I think it's hysterical, but it's also really revealing about how these really truly, you know, a list people all get nervous before they go out and perform. It's it's human nature and being aware of that is important and being able to then say, okay, this is how I'm feeling and then to get ready for that. And I think having the coach is a big help in terms of that.

And even for me, you know, before I do big big cases or, you know, cases where the things may not go well and the person could die on the table, I beforehand, I definitely get into a mindset again, like an athlete, you know, before we're getting on the fucking Bronco that you're going to get ready, get limber, get, you know, get everything focused, make sure everything is set to go, so can go safely as possible. And like you said, I cover it on the episode on performance coaching and fully via eagle theory. There's a lot of techniques you can do, especially with breathing that calms you down and gets you into that zone where you can operate or show up because it's kind of going to go the same before you're going to be to your boss to say, I need a race.

Right. You know, to have that, you know, it's one thing to kind of know it. It's another thing to feel it.

And that's and that's the work we do is that sometimes you know it, but you don't feel it because you didn't get that in childhood. It's reminding you of the time you didn't get what you wanted from your parents. It's reminding you of that thing.

And part of the work we do is like, we're not eight anymore. We're not 10 anymore. Let's hug that little boy and say goodbye to him and for you now.

And just by you listing it and you coming to your own awareness, it's where then empowers you to be your true self. Well, thank you so much for your time. I ask all my guests, what is healing for you?

Healing is improved health. I guess that's that's the first thing, but you know, that's a simple answer is that it's the the state of progressing to a better place, whether it's emotional or physical or psychological or all the different ways you want to do that. I think it's the state of becoming more in balance.

And with that sort of piece, I feel like a state of you know, zen, you know, in that zen, but you know, peace that you're at peace and have things to look forward to that are realistic. And I think also healing is being able to recognize when you're out of balance or when you're having troubles and having a plan, you know, a real set plan as to how to to you know, address that. Love it.

Love it. Love it. Thank you for gracing me with your presence and sharing your wisdom.

And thank you so much for being here. Thank you for all you do. Keep up the good work.

I'll give you five stars. Why? Love you.

Love you too.